The Church of America

I don't know if this just sounded so brilliant because I drank one Manhattan and two glasses of Sangria, but my dad made an observation over dinner on Friday night that I thought was spot on.

We were discussing the latest hoopla over Obama's ex-preacher.  The talking heads were calling for Obama to more strongly denounce his church's ex-leader for his most recent comments as well as for decades of other comments.

What my dad wanted to know was why isn't John McCain being called out to denounce his leader, the current leader of this nation?  John McCain honorably served his country in combat and was even subject to torture in a POW camp.  At the same time, our current president was doing his best to avoid active military duty and currently does his best to allow torture while denying that he condones it.

Shouldn't the talking heads be angrily calling for McCain to vehemently denounce his "preacher" and protest by leaving his "church" (the senate) in an angry huff?  I would argue that who's someone's preacher is far less important than whom one currently supports as leader, when they themselves claim to operate by different ideals.

Isn't McCain sitting silently in the pews of congress by allowing our current administration to torture POW's (excuse me, "enemy combatants")?  Shouldn't he be called upon to stand up and denounce the leader that is not leading the way he says he himself would lead?

Why do we care more about a political candidate's religious leader than their political leaders?  If it is supposed to say something about the candidate's character, or the way he will lead, isn't there much more of a correlation between a man and his political leader?

If this isn't sounding as brilliant as it seemed to me on Friday night, go drink a couple shots and read it again.

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Comments

[boomie]

Do you remember the all girl group, The Dixie Chicks? Do you remember what happened to them when they were in London and made a remark to their audience that, they were ashamed that they came from the same state of Texas, as President Bush? Concerts were canceled after that remark, as well as their records were not broadcast over the radio waves and they received an avalanche of bad press. Why? Because it is unpatriotic, bad etiquette and almost treason to publically speak badly against a US President, especially one that is still in office.
Do you think an ex-POW, war hero, such as McCain would ever, ever speak out against George W. Bush? No soldier would dare. So, that should put that to rest.
As for Obama's 20 year relationship with his pastor, who for the past 20 years, Obama sat in those pews listening to the America-bashing the Rev Wright spewed in hatred to his congregations, I'd be very concerned. Show me your friends and I will tell you who you are. Rev Wright said 9/11 was the fault of the US govt., that America purposly injected blacks with the AIDS virus and that God should dam America.Wright hates white Americans and the American govt.
If you think that that is proper thinking, then yes, drink the kool aid or whatever and so be it. My 2 young daughters were in New York City on 9/11 when the World Trade Center was bombed by 2 airplanes. I had to drive into the disaster zone when they were evacuated to New Jersey. They had to walk right through that horrific event. To this day, my daughters can not talk about it. They saw the people jumping out of the buildings, heard their screams, saw their bodies pulverized on the pavement. They saw the buildings fall.
If Bush wants to waterboard anyone to get information out of them in order to extract future terrorists matter out of them, I hope he skins them alive and tortures them to kingdom come! When al-queda captures Americans they behead them and cut their bodies into little pieces. (think WSJ journalist Pearl)
You have absolutley no idea what is going on in America right now and you are just like everyone else. I have no guarantee that when I say good nite to my kids that I will see them the next day. When I get off the train in NYC, I see armed police officers with machine guns, bomb sniffing dogs, we in NYC are constantly under threat. What do you think is going to happen when Bush leaves office? Do you actually think Obama can just 'talk' to the terrorists. These people want us dead. Pure and simple.
Go back and drink the kool aid.
Naive people, like you, make me sick.

[Retired Syd]

I actually think it's scarier to live in a country where you can't criticize your president.

That is not the freedom our forefathers fought for.

[Leila]

The problems with allowing your 9/11 emotions to guide your thinking are myriad. It is well known that torture is not a reliable way to gain credible information. People will confess to anything to make it stop... I would! Also, there have been many people tortured that are entirely innocent and know nothing anyway. Is it okay to waterboard an innocent person? Or humiliate people in unspeakable ways? You mention the inhuman acts done by terrorists, but can you not see that torture (not to mention this war we find ourselves in) has turned us into terrorists too? In our name, hundreds of thousands of innocent people have died and an entire country's infrastructure has been pummeled and this continues today. And do you think that this has decreased the threat of terrorism? On the contrary, the hate America movement in the middle east has exponentially grown. Do you think that makes us safer? Less likely to be attacked again? So we wreak havok "over there" and tighten security over here so much that we sacrifice what we were hoping to protect... our freedom. As Benjamin Franklin said, "Those who sacrifice liberty for their security deserve neither."

[boomie]

we'll see how smug you feel when we are finally fully attacked. it's just a matter of time. think we are suffering now? this is nothing to what will be in store for us in the future. do you actually think we didn't torture during WW2 or 1? What about the torture from the Japanese and Vietnamese. The latter used to place live bamboo shoots under the fingernails of the captured US soldiers. Since bamboo is a fast growing plant, the nails and fingers of our servicemen used to be ripped right out off their arms. You won't find this info in any newspaper. my friends who fought in Viet Nam told me.
Criticizing your President isn't the same thing as idolizing the teachings of Rev Wright. You can call George Bush any old foul word you want. But mention the word 'black' you are called a racist, can lose your job (ie Imus)and suffer financially. Oh! we're really free in this country to speak or say whatever we want. Not!

Hitler is going to look like Peter Pan when compared to the middle easterners.

But I have to remind myself that you and your dad spoke the words above when you were drunk. Keep drinking.

Etiquette is to lay off politics, religion and money.

You don't realize that our fighting in Iraq sends a 'message' to the 'others'. Like: 'don't fu**k with us'. If you were street smart, you'd 'get it'.

[Retired Syd]

When "the middle easterners" kill 11 million innocent people, THEN you can make a comparison to Hitler, until then, it just sounds like racism.

[Larry]

The discussion was about "Hypocracy". Is Obama a hypocrite for not denouncing the comments of his minister which, incidentally, he'd never heard until YouTube?

John McCain was rotting in a cell in Hanoi while George Bush was pulling every trick in the book to avoid flying combat over Vietnam. What about this irony is so difficult to understand?

McCain should return immediately to Washington, stand up on his desk and forcefully DENOUNCE the coward who now sits in the White House.
Oh, and by the way, am I the only one who remembers how Bush trashed McCain's character in the primaries of 2000?

RetiredSyd's Dad

[Steve Austin]

Wow, hot thread. Shall we not all just calm down and remember that we are just a bunch of yappers, with or without the alcoholic beverages to fuel the thread? ;-\

People who truly believe the various points above (post and comments) do not yap about it. They just vote and shut trap, and go overseas and take care of business. The founding fathers didn't just yap and write, they took action. There is nothing more American than revolution. If you truly believe, it is your patriotic duty to overthrow the US Guvmint. If you truly believe, don't rely on the US Guvmint to effect proper policy overseas. Go mercenary and pop caps in heads yourself, if you think you can do a better job. After all, when it comes down to it, you are the Guvmint.

By the way, for now I'm just a yapper, too. I don't see any hypocrisy worth fighting for, or even voting for/against or chatting about. What could anyone possibly expect from an entrenched, mainstream party on either "side of the aisle"? Middle easterners are no threat to Americans, at least not to hardcore Americans. The country is not at war; this is just a little police action for which we are grossly overpaying. We are so far away from war that we don't even recognize that we've lost touch with what it really means: survival at any cost. Would you die on your own (not the US Armed Forces') terms, for the Constitution of the United States?

[Stephanie]

This whole article is so ridiculous I actually laughed.

[Retired Syd]

@Stephanie-Excellent! Then I think you are the only that got the point.